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Autor Tópico: O Euro  (Lida 4501 vezes)

Lark

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O Euro
« em: 2015-11-01 22:57:14 »
a moeda não o par eurusd.
na minha opinião há que vigiar o que se vai passando com ele.
há cada vez mais gente a dizer 'o rei vai nu'.

aqui é o Wolfgang Munchau a dizê-lo:

Enlargement and the euro are two big mistakes that ruined Europe
Wolfgang Munchau

The single currency is a trap and eastern expansion forced the EU to take its eye off the ball

There has hardly been a year when the EU has not been on the brink of some crisis: banking, sovereign debt, Russia’s annexation of Crimea and now refugees. You can always point fingers at individual politicians and assign blame.

But it is highly implausible that the EU’s serial failures can always be explained as the product of accident and malice.

I put it down to two catastrophic errors committed during the 1990s and at the beginning of this millennium. The first was the introduction of the euro; the second, the EU’s enlargement to 28 members from 15 a couple of decades ago.

You might agree with one or other of these statements, or with neither of them. But few people will agree with both.

I was among those who supported monetary union at the time of its introduction. Advocates of the euro at the time came from two different groups, who struck a Faustian Pact.

Members of the first group believed the euro as constructed would fail, and hoped it would somehow be fixed. The others thought the system would stay rigid, and bend the economies of its members into a new shape.

This latter group knew that, to withstand the rigours of a fixed-exchange system that resembles nothing so much as the gold standard, countries would have to adjust to economic shocks through shifts in wages and prices — a course, they believed, that the euro’s members would be forced to take.

The admission that the euro was a mistake should not be confused with a desire to dissolve it. That would be even more catastrophic. It is merely a recognition that we are trapped in a dysfunctional monetary system.

But how does enlargement play into this? This is not an argument about any particular member state with whose actions one happens to disagree. Nor is it an argument about the principle of enlargement, which is fundamental to the EU.

My quarrel is with the speed of accession, and the criteria that aspiring members have to meet. Just as countries have maximum absorption capacities for migrants, the EU has a maximum absorption capacity for new members.

I have no idea what that number is in any given time period, but it surely is not 13 members in a single decade.

Enlargement affected Europe’s ability to respond to the shocks of subsequent years in two ways. First, it forced the EU to take its eye off the ball at a critical time when it should have focused on building the institutions needed to make the euro work.

Second, enlargement meant that EU countries that were not in the eurozone suddenly found themselves in the majority. That shift naturally shaped the EU’s own agenda. I recall the obsession during those years with competitiveness, a typical small-country economic issue.

Debates on the reform of Europe’s treaties during those years focused on voting rights and the protection of minorities. It was the overwhelming view of European officials and members of the European Parliament that the eurozone itself did not need to be fixed.

At that time it would have been comparatively easy to set up a banking union. But once the crisis set in, and banks suffered huge losses, countries could no longer share their deposit insurance schemes, let alone to create a single one for everybody.

After the crisis had started, the debate about common insurance mechanisms became intertwined with one about transfers. The crisis thus rudely interrupted the EU’s time-honoured, step-by-step approach to integration.

An optimist might interject at this point that it is worth hanging in there. Crises come and go. The EU will still be there. Perhaps so, but then ask yourself: why was the period from the 1950s to the late 1990s more stable compared with the period since?

In the first years of the then European Economic Community, the external security risks were taken care of by Nato. There were almost no risks to financial stability because regulation was extremely stringent by today’s standards.

While the economic shocks, such as the oil and inflation crises of the 1970s, were no less severe than today, EU members had the ability to absorb them through flexible exchange rates.

Today Brussels suddenly has to look after its own foreign policy interests and run the world’s second-largest economy. The EU is not institutionally ready for either job. And its leaders are intellectually not ready either.

We should expect to see more crises, more unilateral action by member states, greater willingness to explore opt-outs, invocation of exceptional circumstances to suspend EU-level action, more rule breaking and the like.

The real risk is not a formal break-up. That would be technically hard to do. But this is no consolation. The real danger is that the EU is simply going to wither away and turn into a ghost.

ft
« Última modificação: 2015-11-01 23:33:34 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #1 em: 2015-11-03 23:53:19 »
Flexible Illusions

Wolfgang Munchau declares that the euro was a mistake, and pinpoints a key illusion. Advocates:

Citar
knew that, to withstand the rigours of a fixed-exchange system that resembles nothing so much as the gold standard, countries would have to adjust to economic shocks through shifts in wages and prices — a course, they believed, that the euro’s members would be forced to take.


That is, they believed that reforms could create enough flexibility to mainly neutralize Milton Friedman’s warning that in the face of negative shocks, countries with fixed exchange rates would suffer large costs:

If the external changes are deep-seated and persistent, the unemployment produces steady downward pressure on prices and wages, and the adjustment will not have been completed until the deflation has run its sorry course.

But I never believed this would work, and based my skepticism on some real evidence. During the runup to Maastricht, there were a number of studies of the US — a currency union that functions reasonably well. Was that because the US, with its weak unions and competitive labor markets, had more wage and price flexibility than other nations? Not according to Blanchard and Katz, who found that wages played hardly any role in US regional adjustments to shocks, that it was all about labor mobility. So the idea that Europe would find itself able to achieve a kind of flexibility found nowhere in the world — not even the brutal, markets-rule American economy — was just implausible.

What none of us thought about at the time was the further problem of the interaction of deflation and debt — the way attempts to adjust through falling wages would worsen debt problems. But even given what we knew a quarter-century ago, the problems with the euro were obvious.

krugman
« Última modificação: 2015-11-03 23:58:45 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

tommy

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #2 em: 2015-11-04 10:04:41 »
O euro foi a melhor coisa que aconteceu à Europa, porque pela 1ª vez, os países governados pela esquerdalha irresponsável não podem imprimir moeda para fingir que está tudo bem;

Pela 1ª vez toda a população sabe quanto vale o dinheiro que leva no bolso;

Pela 1ª vez os governos estão a ser obrigados a fazer reformas, e não a vender ilusões que destroem países como a Venezuela, Cuba ou Argentina. Obrigados a trabalhar e não a ouvir palhaços ignorantes que nunca fizeram nada na vida como krugman e stiglitz que diziam que a venezuela era uma maravilha em 2007, mas depois o petróleo deixou de fazer a sua magia, e agora precisamos de 1 trilião de bolivares para comprar 1 rolo de papel higiénico.


É o euro que aguenta Portugal como sociedade de 1º mundo. Se acaba, nós acabamos como a Venezuela.

pedferre

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #3 em: 2015-11-04 10:37:53 »
Quem diz Portugal diz também Grécia, Hungria, Espanha e Itália (até certo nível)... :)

pedferre

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #4 em: 2015-11-04 11:07:22 »
ups a Hungria ainda não está no Euro. :)

deMelo

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #5 em: 2015-11-04 12:35:22 »
Lark.... estás a agoirar isto.

Ainda acreditas na paridade?
The Market is Rigged. Always.

Lark

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #6 em: 2015-11-04 12:42:40 »
Lark.... estás a agoirar isto.

Ainda acreditas na paridade?

totally...
and beyond!

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #7 em: 2015-11-04 12:46:48 »
Lark.... estás a agoirar isto.

Ainda acreditas na paridade?

totally...
and beyond!

L

o euro pode ir abaixo da paridade quanto a mim

deMelo

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #8 em: 2015-11-04 12:56:45 »
Lark.... estás a agoirar isto.

Ainda acreditas na paridade?

totally...
and beyond!

L

Is your money where your mouth is?
The Market is Rigged. Always.

Lark

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #9 em: 2015-11-04 12:58:47 »
Lark.... estás a agoirar isto.

Ainda acreditas na paridade?

totally...
and beyond!

L

Is your money where your mouth is?

já verás o zark a tradar o euro down ao vivo a cores e em real.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Vanilla-Swap

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #10 em: 2016-10-03 15:15:39 »
Os sacrificios de sair de uma união monetária s~eo quae sempre superados em larga medida depois de 6 a 8 meses. Há que se ser honesto, os sacrifícios de nos mantermos no euro, para além da humilhação serão mais do mesmo por decadas, subcidiados com emigração em massa.

Há muita gente a querer o escudo para muitas coisas, e
 isso complica o debate.

Aquilo que os comunistas, na sua sociedade de mínimos como lhe chamam em Cabo Verde sobre o que passaram, fariam com a moeda realmente não haveria nem bancarrota, nem existiriam relações com o mundo exterior (isolamento do país voluntário ou não). Mas isso são soluções parcelares para o problema maior e sistémico que tensescreve o Portugal destes últimos 10 anos: Portugal fora da História.

Que voltar ao escudo promete que não haveria bancarrota interna isso é quase verdade, tão verdade que doi ver ser negada. Quase porque depende que não haja deficite nos gastos e receitas do estado, caso contrário o estado poderá criar hiperinflação (embora para tal teriamos de ter deficits superiores a 10%). Ter hiperinflação seria a mais provável das calamidades se saíssimos com um governo de esquerda socialista ou bloquistas e menos provável se for dos comunistas, PSD e menos ainda se for com apoio centrista.

A verdade é que dentro do euro nunca pagaremos a dívida externa, mas saindo sim poderemos pagar. Dentro do euro humilharemos a nossa orgulhosa nação todos os dias, e por estarmos numa situação debelitada seremos alvo de numenclaturas dos que nos quiserem subjugar sem que tenhamos direito de resposta (vide Hanna Arendt sobre como puderam os Judeus ser ostilizados).

Sair do euro, seja nas diferentes modalidades (existem mesmo muitas modalidades) poderemos de ter as exportações a pagar a dívida, teriamos de ter o saldo da balança comercial positivo (e de pagamentos em geral também claro), e esse excesso seria utilizado pelo BdP para pagar a dívida. Isso seria um roubo às empresas sim e não, quanto às familias isso é muito discutível pois estas raramente participam na relação internacional a não ser que tenham membros no exterior a serem sustentados por elas ou vice versa.

As empresas devem-no entender como a restituição pelo financiamento de ter uma moeda nacional desvalorizada e a liquidez interna que a nova moeda dará para realizarem investimentos e criar emprego.

Hoje chegamos a ter exportações que suplantam as importações, mas é temporário, pois tal deve-se ao facto de o mercado interno ter decaido de forma brutal, importamos menos, e empresas dependentes do mercado interno estão a exportar (embora muitas vezes a custo zero para sobreviver). Tal acontece ser insustentável. Para mantermos as exportações a suplantar as importações tem de haver investimento, pois a capacidade productiva sem investimento deverá estar no limite. E muitas empresas que mantém as exportações estão falidas e necessitam de liquidez imediata, coisa que o sistema bancário nacional dentro do euro não pode fornecer (mesmo havendo mais poupança, estranho não é?).

Pois só como moeda nacional será possível às empresas Portugueses obterem liquidez na banca nacional para realizarem investimentos nos sectores de bens e serviços transaccionáveis.

A questão de que deveremos ter produtos de elevado valor acrescentado é uma falácia pois tal só é possível com investimento na educação e aplicação das competências aquiridas ai sobre as industrias.

Continuar no euro implicará ao estado diminuir inclusive a oferta de ensino universitário, e ai as bolsas de investigação, que são a pedra filosofal deste transformar chumbo bruto em ouro.

Por outro lado dentro do euro, o pouco dinheiro que tivermos na economia interna sai do país para pagar ao exterior algo de completa contranatura que provoca o total esvasiar da liquidez interna que é necessária para realizar investimento.

Uma moeda interna seria ainda uma barreira preciosa para desaconcelhar importações, pois promoveria a produção interna. Sendo que grande parte do que importamos poderia ser produzida em Portugal, uma desvalorização de 20% seria mais que o necessário para incentivar as empresas Portuguesas a produzir o que se importa que poderiamos produzir, para além que lhes daria uma margem extra de 12%-7% de negociação nos mercados internacionais.

Aumenta-se a produção, cresce a economia, baixa o desemprego, o estado equilibra o déficite e o país pode pagar a dívida externa, tanto a pública como a privada.

Dentro disto tudo é importante que Portugal se cole à Inglaterra e acompanhe de perto a negociação inglesa de um estatuto de associado com a UE, que a meu ver tal será negociado para a EFTA, organização de que Portugal e o RU foram fundadoras.

Se sair do Euro implica sair da UE, a verdade é que os Acordos do Porto do Espaço Económico Europeu - EEE (ing. EEA) e de Shengen continuarão vigentes, e o país poderá integrar automaticamente na EFTA especialmente se o RU o fizer também.

Pior que não sair do Euro é sobreviver ao desastre do euro impludir. O qual nas actuais configurações é a meta inevitável.

Vanilla-Swap

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #11 em: 2016-10-03 18:07:05 »
How the Original Sin of Borrowing in a Foreign Currency Can Reduce the Effectiveness of Monetary Policy for Both the Borrowing and Lending Country

When a central bank cuts interest rates, each type of borrower-lender relationship generates more aggregate demand because (a) the shift in of the budget constraint of the lender is matched by an equal and opposite shift out in the budget constraints of the borrower, (b) borrowers generally have higher marginal propensities to consume out of changes in effective wealth and © beyond the sum of wealth effects from (a) and (b), there is also a substitution effect leading to more spending now simply because lower interest rates make spending now cheaper relative to spending later than it was before the interest rate cut. (a) is the “principle of countervailing wealth effects” I discuss in these three posts:
1.Even Central Bankers Need Lessons on the Transmission Mechanism for Negative Interest Rates
2.Responding to Joseph Stiglitz on Negative Interest Rates.
3.Negative Rates and the Fiscal Theory of the Price Level





The Open Economy

I laid out the principle of countervailing wealth effects in “Even Central Bankers Need Lessons on the Transmission Mechanism for Negative Interest Rates” in order to dispute the idea that causing one’s currency to depreciate was almost the sole transmission mechanism for interest rate cuts into the negative range, so I concentrated on the case where every central bank in the world simultaneously cut its target rate by 100 basis points. But it is interesting considering the open economy case with only one central bank cutting its target rate.
First, it is important to realize that thinking about wealth and substitution effects in the way I describe above is only telling about consumption and investment. The extra net exports from the outward capital flow as funds flee the low domestic interests by going abroad is an addition to aggregate demand that goes beyond the wealth and substitution effect logic above.

See “International Finance: A Primer” for why funds going outward drive net exports up. That post also explains how the outward capital flow puts more of the domestic currency in the hands of foreigners and thereby drives down the foreign-exchange value of the domestic currency.

Small Open Economy, Net Creditor in Foreign-Denominated Assets. To see if there is any chance that the wealth and substitution effect logic can overturn the effect of increased capital outflow on aggregate demand, let’s begin by considering a small open economy that is a net creditor. To the extent that anyone in the country is investing domestically both before an interest rate cut, the usual principle of countervailing wealth effects holds since both borrower and lender are domestic. Because it is a small open economy, the rate of return on foreign assets should be affected by this monetary policy move only to the extent it induces expected exchange rate movements. If people expect any mean reversion of the exchange rate, the usual depreciation of the local currency accompanying a domestic interest rate cut might make people expect a bit of mean reversion and therefore a bit lower returns on foreign assets than before the interest rate cut. But overwhelming this effect, depreciation of the domestic currency makes any foreign assets already owned look bigger in value when totaled up in the depreciate domestic currency. Overall, there is very little room for any ambiguity about the stimulative effect of interest rates cuts for a small open economy that is a net creditor: there is the stimulus to net exports from increased capital outflow, plus a higher return on foreign assets when viewed in the domestic currency, plus the higher value of foreign assets when viewed from the perspective of the domestic currency. 

Large Open Economy, Net Creditor in Foreign Denominated Assets. Now, consider a large open economy that is a net creditor. As with any monopolist that drives down prices by producing more and selling it, a net creditor country that increases its lending abroad could theoretically reduce the rates of return it gets abroad and so make itself effectively poorer. If this were the case, one would expect to have at least some people in that country suggest that it have policies to reduce its foreign lending in order to jack up its returns on foreign assets. In the absence of any such suggestion, it seems unlikely that a country in fact would make itself significantly poorer by increasing its foreign lending from its current level.

Net Creditor in Own Currency. If a country does significant lending in its own currency, such lending is still driven by interest rates abroad relative to interest rates at home, and like the purchase of foreign-denominated assets, puts the domestic currency in the hands of foreigners, who are likely to turn around and spend those funds in increasing net exports from the domestic economy. However, with the lending in the domestic currency, exchange rate changes no longer change wealth as viewed in the domestic currency. It now becomes logically possible for a cut in interest rates to reduce spending simply because of the reduced interest income from foreigners when rates are cut.

Germany. There are three ways of thinking of the situation for Germany. One is that seeing Germany as a set of creditors within the eurozone, where the entire eurozone is seen as domestic. When taking the eurozone as the main unit of analysis, and Germany as only a part, German lending to others in the eurozone is all internal and the principle of countervailing wealth effects still applies in its main form to the eurozone as a whole.

Second, Germany can be seen as a net creditor in its own currency.

Third, one can view the situation as the other countries in the eurozone automatically loosening their monetary policy when Germany does. The other countries loosening their monetary policy cancels out the exchange rate effects that would otherwise make the foreign assets Germans hold in other eurozone countries look like more wealth when Germany loosens its monetary policy.

Net Debtor in Own Currency. If a country owes money on net, primarily in its own currency, then in this borrower-lender relationship, a cut in interest rates will have a positive wealth on consumption by this debtor country, enhancing the positive effects on aggregate demand from borrower-lender relationships within the country, and from the capital outflow and consequent increase in net exports induced by a rate cut. 

Small Open Economy, Net Debtor in Foreign-Denominated Obligations. This case is sometimes called “original sin.” Depreciation now makes debts look larger, which should overwhelm the effect of expected mean reversion in the exchange rate in lower the rate of return on those debts. If foreign-denominated obligations are large enough, it might even become impossible to stimulate the economy with an interest rate cut. Thus, getting into this situation is quite dangerous. Countries should put policies into place to avoid owing large amounts of money in foreign-denominated obligations. And the IMF should proactively discourage countries from committing the original sin of borrowing with foreign-denominated obligations. 

Large Open Economy, Net Debtor in Foreign-Denominated Obligations. This does not literally mean a large economy, but only one that must pay higher interest rates when it owes more and can pay lower rates when it owes less. Assuming a depreciation of the currency from a monetary loosening that reduces the rate on own-currency debt raises net exports enough that a bit of the debt begins to be paid off and the rate paid on all of the foreign-denominated debt goes down when it is rolled over, that provides a bit of an extra wealth effect in the positive direction. 




Summary

Overall, the main potential loopholes to the argument that interest rate cuts should stimulate the economy come from a country’s being a large net creditor in its own currency, or a country’s being a large net debtor in foreign-denominated obligations. In both cases, someone is borrowing in a foreign currency. Overall, having countries borrow primarily in their own currency if they do borrow is an important measure for maintaining the effectiveness of monetary policy.




Note: I am worried about the chance that I might have missed some important element of the analysis I pursue in this post. Send me a tweet (@mileskimball) if you think I got something wrong or missed something.


Vanilla-Swap

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #12 em: 2017-09-22 17:05:32 »
Se a Merkel não conseguir um bom resultado nas eleições e a situação na Catalunha pode levar uma das maiores quedas do euro para a semana.

Vanilla-Swap

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #13 em: 2017-09-23 17:22:50 »
Já há muito tempo que se previa o que está a acontecer em Espanha.

La guerra abierta entre Cataluña y España que nos espera

Cuando el conflicto entre el Estado español y Cataluña estalle sin posibilidad de vuelta atrás la mayor parte de los españoles se quedará atónita. Porque nadie le habrá advertido de que eso podía ocurrir. Los medios masivos, y particularmente las televisiones, llevan muchos meses, y particularmente en los últimos tiempos, ocultando la gravedad del asunto. Porque eso es lo que el Gobierno cree que le interesa, por eso de que lo que no sale en la tele no existe. Pero cada día que pasa parece más inevitable una guerra abierta entre el independentismo catalán y el centralismo español. Una guerra de verdad, que puede derivar en lo que sea, hasta en lo peor. Y los plazos se acortan, sin que en el horizonte se atisbe el mínimo indicio de que ese designio pueda ser evitado.

El Gobierno del PP cree, o hace que cree, que tiene el pulso ganado. El independentismo, por muchos conflictos internos que lo aflijan, está convencido de que nadie va a poder derrotar su causa. Ese tipo de convencimiento mutuo en sus propias fuerzas ha sido siempre la condición necesaria para que se produjeran los enfrentamientos más terribles. La necesidad de mantener el tipo, de no ceder en nada porque se entiende que eso sería un signo de debilidad, suele ser un complemento que refuerza tales dinámicas infernales. Y estamos en eso. O muy cerca de eso.


Hace un par de meses, cuando recuperó oficialmente el Gobierno, Rajoy inició una tímida maniobra de acercamiento a los dirigentes catalanes. Seguramente sólo movido por la necesidad de demostrar que hacía algo, aunque no fuera a conducir a nada significativo. Pero ese intento, que nunca fue más que una insulsa operación de relaciones públicas, se agotó el día que José María Aznar tronó desde su púlpito de FAES. El expresidente le dijo muy clarito a su sucesor que si se atrevía a dar un solo paso negociador con Cataluña él pondría en pie en su contra a las bases del partido. Y Mariano bajó la cabeza sin decir nada. En eso consistió el rifirrafe. Que perdió Rajoy.

Unas semanas antes algo parecido se había producido en el interior del PSOE. Otro expresidente, en este caso Felipe González, salió inopinadamente a la palestra para pedir la cabeza de Pedro Sánchez. Porque no quería que éste, en su desesperada lucha por mantener el cargo, pactara un gobierno con Podemos. Pero sobre todo porque temía que el entonces secretario general socialista consiguiera la abstención de los independentistas catalanes en su investidura a cambio de no sabe qué, pero en todo caso de escuchar sus peticiones, de matizar el "no" a cualquier demanda que procediera de Cataluña que hasta ese momento el PSOE había mantenido como postura oficial.

Felipe González ganó su envite como más tarde Aznar ganaría el suyo. Pedro Sánchez fue apartado y hoy los dos primeros partidos del Parlamento tienen la misma posición ante el conflicto catalán. Sólo una derrota del oficialismo socialista, el de Susana Díaz y la comisión gestora, en las futuras primarias podría modificar esa relación de fuerzas. Que el PSC pueda quedar triturado por el centralismo de su partido no parece importar a quienes controlan la sede de Ferraz. Para ellos es más importante conservar el poder que les queda en Andalucía, Extremadura, Castilla-La Mancha y Asturias, y en esos territorios, tras largos años de algo muy parecido al anti-catalanismo por parte de los dirigentes locales socialistas, cualquier veleidad negociadora con el independentismo se pagaría muy cara.

En este último frente, su crónica política del último año está marcada por la incapacidad de establecer una estrategia común y el riesgo constante de que ésta devenga en división abierta. En su seno se libran distintos combates, el más importante de los cuales es la lucha por la primacía que enfrenta a la antes vencedora CIU y ahora cada vez más débil PdCat, de un lado, y a Esquerra Republicana del otro. Con las CUP como francotiradores autónomos que amenazan día sí, día no con hacer imposible la tarea a ambos.


Aunque no lo reconozcan en público, el PP y el PSOE confían en que esa tensión interna, junto con el martilleo de las acciones judiciales contra sus líderes, acabe debilitando, si no arruinando, al independentismo. Ese es su único plan de acción. Pero todo indica que no va a valer para nada. Porque más allá del hartazgo de la opinión pública catalana, que debe ser muy extendido y profundo, incluso en sus ámbitos más independentistas, una mayoría abrumadora de la misma sigue queriendo que se celebre un referéndum. Ese es el dato central de la cuestión, por su contundencia y porque no se ha debilitado lo más mínimo en los últimos años.


No tiene sentido político alguno hacer como que se ignora esa realidad. Una gran mayoría de catalanes quiere que se les reconozca el derecho a decidir. Lo cual no quiere decir que esa mayoría opte por la independencia. Y mucho menos después de comprobar, con las idas y venidas del último año, lo mal que la pueden gestionar quienes van a encabezarla. El derecho a decidir colma buena parte de las aspiraciones que en este terreno tienen muchos de quienes lo demandan. Pero nada, seguramente ni siquiera un desastre, les va a apartar de ese objetivo.



El lunes juzgan a Artur Mas por desobediencia. El Financial Times acaba de decir que es un "juicio político, que tiene muy poco fundamento legal". Le puede inhabilitar por 10 años. Si esa es la sentencia, Mas, la única esperanza que le queda al nacionalismo de centro-derecha, quedaría fuera del juego político para siempre y Oriol Junqueras y Esquerra tomarían el mando del frente independentista. ¿En qué mejoraría eso las posiciones del bloque centralista PP-PSOE? En nada.

Hace 40 años, nada más ser nombrado presidente del gobierno, Adolfo Suárez dejó helados a propios y extraños cuando llamó a La Moncloa a Josep Tarradellas, el emblema irredento del nacionalismo catalán que llevaba casi cuatro décadas en el exilio francés. Ese fue el primer paso, clamoroso, del reconocimiento de la autonomía catalana por parte de un poder central que todavía era franquista.

Vista fríamente la cosa, hoy no haría falta un gesto tan dramático. Bastaría con que el PP, apoyado por el PSOE, se mostrara dispuesto a explorar la posibilidad de un referéndum legal, incluso no vinculante, o cuando menos, la posibilidad de modificar algo las leyes para hacerlo viable. Pero nada indica que eso pueda ocurrir. A menos que pase algo muy gordo. Como que el Gobierno de Madrid precinte los colegios electorales donde habría de votarse un referéndum ilegalmente convocado por la Generalitat o que suspenda, en parte o en todo, la autonomía catalana al abrigo del artículo 155 de la constitución. Cualquier hipótesis sobre cuál sería la reacción popular a esas medidas carece hoy de fundamento. Pero no la suposición de que éstas puedan ser adoptadas. Y dentro de poco.

http://www.eldiario.es/zonacritica/guerra-abierta-Cataluna-Espana-espera_6_608649156.html









Luso11

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #14 em: 2017-09-23 19:05:49 »

Consta que o problema fundamental não está no grau de autonomia da Catalunha. O Governo de Madrid estaria disposto a conceder um estatuto similar ao da Escócia ( creio que é distinto do do Eite e de Gales ) adotando uma estrutura próxima do Reino Unido.
O que impede de facto qualquer entendimento é que os Catalães persistem numa entidade de cariz republicano que para Madrid é inaceitável ...   

vbm

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #15 em: 2017-09-23 19:38:25 »
A Austrália e o Canadá são Repúblicas
numa Comunidade cuja soberana é Rainha!

Vanilla-Swap

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #16 em: 2017-09-24 10:11:36 »
A Austrália e o Canadá são Repúblicas
numa Comunidade cuja soberana é Rainha!

Aqui a Madeira anda muito calminha.

Vanilla-Swap

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #17 em: 2017-09-24 19:10:33 »
O Martin Schulz vai ser o Jerónimo da Alemanha de manhã vai negociar com o governo e à tarde vai à manifestação, vamos ver se os alemães papam isto como os portugueses.

Vanilla-Swap

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #18 em: 2017-09-24 19:50:55 »
O Martin Schulz vai ser o Jerónimo da Alemanha de manhã vai negociar com o governo e à tarde vai à manifestação, vamos ver se os alemães papam isto como os portugueses.

Isto é se a Alemanha tiver algo que negociar ou um motivo para protestar.

Vanilla-Swap

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Re: O Euro
« Responder #19 em: 2017-09-25 10:11:27 »
Os conflitos da JAMAICA vai ser contra o Deutsche Bundesbank.

O